ISO50

my thoughts exactly…

It’s not music, it’s art. The art of marketing

Sigh, sigh, and double sigh. Let’s face it, MTV is a great way to encapsulate and capture what was wrong with what’s left of the music industry. The fact is it just seems like the statute of limitations on being original ended at the turn of the century, just fierce rehashing ever since. There have been a few bright spots but not much in the way of iconic, amazing work. Let’s face it, Kanye and Beyonce own there considerable chunks of the brainshare while much more talented artists get forgotten every day. Sadly almost any album that hit the top 50-100 in the 70’s is probably a vastly superior listen than of the current crops top ten.

Its sad to see something as powerful and loved as MTV (which made us all stand up and notice talents like Beck (and Beavis and Butthead)) just crumbling under the pressure of trying to produce the next “sing-along” “hit”. My generation, which in itself is scary to say, grew up with Beck, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Pearl Jam, which may not be everyones cup of tea, but it really is wholesome heartfelt music with feeling, with substance which MTV helped develop and move along.

NOTHING MTV produces anymore has substance…NOTHING! But saying that, it appeals to the clean cut digital download age, where its a new hit song every day, where SONGS are loved instead of ALBUMS. Whereas all these bands I mentioned before suited the rough cassette driven medium. I say just let MTV do what they do, just enjoy what you enjoy and let them rot away. They will make there millions, but will they ever experience the joy of Boards of Canada??NEVER!!! they may listen to it, but they will never enjoy it, they won’t get it, and that makes me slightly more content with coping with this shambles.

I agree with this to an extent and that’s because I share similar taste in music as most do here. However, music is and art and all of the arts are subject to individual taste. I am positive that every generation has had this very discussion and it will continue to happen with every future generation to come.

I would encourage everyone to just respect everyone’s taste and opinions of music and let it go. If the music that is shared on this site and loved by the readers was as mutually favored by the masses, MTV would be playing it.

I struggle with this all the time with my wife who really just likes catchy songs she can sing to and can’t stand half of the music I listen too. I’m not going to fool myself in thinking I can change her tastes and I shouldn’t have too.

So as much disdain for MTV and the Pop music scene as I share with everyone here… I think we should just let them have their scene and we can have ours. Keep making the music you love and be happy if even one person likes it.

I’m currently 17, and it’s just something I’ve learned to put up with. I’m fine with people liking whatever they want to like, but it’s the constant ‘other music is crap’ attitude that gets me. When people ask to borrow my iPod and then hand it back wondering where all the ‘good’ music is, stuff like that. Another byproduct of this is the cacophony of cellphones blaring chart music at full volume, so annoying.

You raise an interesting point about the UK having stadium sized gigs for the artists you mention. It definitely seems more likely to happen, mainly because of the popularity of Warp artists. I could see a band like Grizzly Bear or perhaps FlyLo performing a huge gig, but they will never be popular on a nation-wide scale. The nation at large (or at least in my age range) are still dead set on a mixture of auto-tuned Hip-Pop. A transition has to happen soon though, so who knows.

Again, I’m fine with people listening to whatever they want to, just don’t bother me. I’m happiest in my room listening to Osborne/Matthew Dear/Lusine on my (Dad’s) Sennheisers, working on things I love. That’s who I am, and no amount of advertising is going to change that. To me, the only thing MTV music is good for is cultural entertainment, such as with the recent Kanye West debacle. Watching people go up in arms about that is just goddam hilarious.

I strongly disagree with the premise that “beauty exists in the eye of the beholder”. Especially when taken to the extreme. There is such a thing as aesthetics, and disregard for aesthetics. There are bad photographs, there are bad paintings, there are bad novels, there is bad poetry, and yes, there is bad music…and much of it exists in the realm of popular music.

Taking a critical “live and let live” approach to aesthetics comes off as intellectually lazy and only helps perpetuate the proliferation of really bad art.

After last night, I actually kind of like Lady Gaga a bit. She took HUGE chances in what she wore, her performance “bit” off of musical theatre (something it seems she is a fan of after seeing her in the gold plated Phantom mask) and her performance actually had a point (the song being Paparazzi and her “death” at the end) and was done live (not shot like a music video).

That being said, there are tons of things wrong with the state of music as it currently sits… As shown in a lot of these comments and in Jakub’s post as well, there is a TON of criticism where music is involved. EVERYONE thinks that their idea of “good” music should be everyone else’s idea of “good” music, and when it isn’t… oooooh, look out, cause you are going to hear about it. Remember the 90’s and how everyone was an elitist on their music taste (how can you like Pearl Jam, Nirvana are the shit… No, I like Veruca Salt… what, are you crazy?)…? Is it possible we made the rest of the world just take in whatever was spoonfed to them since it was so difficult to like something different?

Last point… We live in a world were major labels are having a really hard time, indie artists don’t want to sign to them and music as a whole is suffering. You have to think, if the people with all the money and power can’t get good acts on their label (because they are too “cool” to sign, or they don’t want to change for a major [makes sense]) what are they left to push? These 30-40 year olds who are trying to stay 19 and these lame College Dorm Frat-Poppers who make crappy tracks to over-use their 00’s slang and talk about how much they love chicks. Indie’s don’t have the cash to put it in front of enough people and major’s don’t have the class to take a chance.

Thanks for my time.

PS- Muse kinda rocked it still, nod to MTV for finding them like… 5 years later.

@mpb I’ve never heard anyone else agree with me on this, but you’re absolutely correct. The illusion of subjectivism makes an excuse for the preponderance of – well, crap. Cheers to you for your insight.

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When people call Lady Gaga ‘edgy’ or whatever it really frustrates me. She’s a total phony, a product of commercialization. And even if she weren’t, her persona is built around really shallow goals rather than a kind of self-expression (if you don’t believe me, read an interview with her).

That’s why I think Kanye saying F U to the whole institution is, in my opinion, pretty good (sure he’s a product of the same system but I would say he’s a whole lot more creative than most and got there by just making beats). Big music is a sham – even more now than before – and it’s tricked 99% of the population into listening to it to the exclusion of anything legitimate. Fortunately(!!!) there’s a lot of great music by lesser-known artists coming out now too.

Great article, Jakub. Thanks for the read.

Im just saying…Its an award show and if you are talking about it the next day they win. Period.

Youre concern and disgruntled hasbeen gripes are proof that they win.

If you cant join em, beat em.

If this blog cares so much about honest to goodness art and talent then why dont you do an awards blog for your readers.

Then you can have an impact instead of being impacted.

I am Joel Nealy and I am the Creative Director of gdmworldwide

Designer and Musician.

Peace.

p.s.

Stop complaining, it satisfies them.

I second Joel on the awards blog idea.

If my kids in the future ever ask me if I listened to Taylor Swift and the likes, I will disown them on the spot.

What’s scary is that I was taking a taxi in Ulanbataar, Mongolia and the driver was humming to Vanessa Carlton. If that isn’t viral like, I don’t know what is.

And Joel, this blog has a huge impact already and doesn’t need awards.

I agree with pretty much all that’s been said here, but can I just say that I live in the UK, and it isn’t really any better here, it’s identical in fact, the exact same artists in the chart, the exact same artists on MTV. I’m lucky enough to live in London, and I can see good shows any day of the week, but by no stretch of the imagination are Warp artists performing stadium shows.

did anyone ever watch the music channel IMF (international music feed)? It only aired for three years (2005-2008),but it played music videos from all across the globe. The best part of IMF was that it played artists from all labels. its funny that you mention Bat for Lashes, Jakub, because IMF introduced her to me. “What’s A Girl To Do?” is one of my fav videos. IMF was a brief dream come true, they would gave the rundown of popular music around the world and gave indie artists the opportunity to be discovered. Oh, and Brand New School did an amazing job on the network packaging, loved the visuals. Its very sad that Universal Music Group sold the channel. Anyhow, I’m thankful for all you guys on ISO50. You guys feed me the best tracks. I always say that we creative people need creative music.

I must say that for once on this blog I would like to argue a post. I want to preface it with saying that I am not a “slave to the mainstream music stream. In fact my favorite and most recognized artists would be among the Thom Yorke and Bjork breed, so this is coming not as a completely biased statement.

I am a firm believer that ALL music is subjective. If one person hates it, another may love it. It appears rather pretentious and “snobby” to gripe about the Top 40 Music, judging it as “poor music.” Music truly soothes the soul and for one to tell another how their soul should be soothed is merely attempting to argue your superiority against another persons. Music makes people genuinely want “to party? to feel or remember a sad/happy moment in life? have a story told to them? a passionate epic breakdown?” In other art forms, I think that Scott is a great graphic artist and with that thought in mind, I still can look through his portfolio and find a piece that I hate, regardless of how he personally felt about the work. However, I will recognize that, this piece of work can be amazing to another person and accept the piece for what it is to others and not that of myself.

If we believe in art as an expression form then we artists are not to judge the “worth” of another artists work, unless we intend on accepting poor judgment of our own work.

I see where you’re coming from Jakub. I watched some of it lastnight, and I feel alot of the same things you mentioned in your post. I see decline, I see trash for the most part, and I can’t abide by the “subjectivity” plea here because I don’t consider this to be an area that simply lacks subjectivity and that’s all.

I hope we can smell when there’s something rotten in the next room, and see how it seeks to infiltrate our mind and our life, how it manipulates and degrades.

This was a quality post! Good discussion

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I really enjoyed the VMAs….I cant believe you guys didnt. If you met me you would see that my interests are probably not all that different from alot of people that frequent this site. I havent watched MTV in about 15 years, I’m not into liking pop music because its pop music, I’m a professional artist and designer, I pretty much grew up hating MTV and the mainstream, I grew up mixing music and going to alot of shows, and I agree with and enjoy most everything that this blog is about. I felt the need to give that background because I seem to be the only one who was really impressed with the 2009 VMAs. There were some things I didnt like…..like Green Day’s and Pink’s performance…..but there were so many great moments. For instance, everything about Lady Gaga is amazing and badass. She seems to be unleashing her true artistry now. When she first came out it was like she had to be more mainstream to get her foot in the door. Now that she is in however she is proving to be a super talented and super crazy artist. I enjoyed Madonna’s speech and I enjoyed Taylor Swift and I absolutely never listen to that kind of music…..it was just fun. I’m also glad that Kanye did what he did. We as individuals all put our foot in our mouths at some point….because he did it when he did we all get to learn another lesson about the matter and Taylor and Beyonce got to have a unique moment with greater ups and downs than ever could have been if they would have simply gone on stage and accepted their award. Anyways, there is so much more that I could say but I will stop. I just enjoyed it. When I review some piece of entertainment that I’ve experienced I usually try to first comment on the raw emotional feeling that I had when I experienced it….then get analytical. In this case, I can’t deny how I felt. I just feel like so many people love to hate things for the sake of hating them. I hope thats not what is happening here. It doesn’t seem to be that simple…..I just don’t know why so many people who for so long have had very similar opinions to mine are all in such disagreement.

I had hope rekindled in the state of music last week when I looked at the Billboard album chart and Imogen Heap new album Ellipse debuted at number 5! I only thought things like that where possible in the UK.

I was 13 (I’m 24 now) when I stopped listening to the radio and THANK GOD I did. Since then, I have found so much more out there. People like what they like. Just like everyone is different, their taste in music is different and there are heaps of genres out there for everyone. Most people I know don’t stick to only one genre. I wish we could all respect each other’s taste. Sure, I wish popular music had more substance like it did back in the day. But there’s lots of music out there with substance, you don’t have to look very hard.

I completely agree with you.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole instrumental scene got a push in the near future. Over the last few years it seems to become a piece of pop cultural to be “indie” and you see all kinds of *said in a maching voice* “quirky”, “Edgy”, maybe even a little “free spirited?”. Companies are starting to see a whole new field for them to exploit, and they’ve already begun. American Apparel…ahem….Urban Outfitters….ahemm…..blockbusters like Juno, Nick and Norah’s Playlist, etc…you know…shit that’s advertised as being “so free spirited and individual” but it’s really just as contrived as a Gilmore Girls episode.

So with all that said I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere down the line this whole “quirky indie” trend turns into a huge conglomerate that will become the new “popular” music. Now I doubt (and severly hope) Boards of Canada, Autechre, Vitalic, etc. will be the new Lady Gagas, or Mileys, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see some names we feel are underground move on up the popularity scale.

Hi

I think generally what’s happened to the music industry is that their not investing in new music…and when i say this i mean that they’re not putting money into the marketing and finding of new music…i have read recently that the big record companies are looking to their back catalog (60’s and 70’s) to re-issue stuff to the ‘youngsters’ because of the current trend in ‘retro’ stuff and the fact that new music doesn’t pull in the money…by this they mean immediate profits.
I don’t disagree with this but i’m sure if they put the effort into promoting new acts over a period of time and investing in the band as they evolve rather than looking for good looking acts they can make a quick buck from, in the long run the industry will become healthier….there is so much good new music out there that isn’t being looked after and invested in because its seen as not being commercial enough…what happened to the days of making mixtapes of the fabulous new bands you’ve found and getting your friends to listen to it. its hard to believe that at one time albums like Dark Side of the Moon were at the top of the album charts for any number of years…are you telling me that LadtGaGa’s album is going to do the same?…no…because there is nothing emotionally to invest in…there is nothing new that she is doing that Madonna hasn’t already done…there is no journey for the listener.
I run a website called eyeseesound.tv in england and we are about promoting good new music from whatever genre, so long as it is good…which is subjective i know…but i love music and there is enough out there for music to begin to thrive again like it did in the 60’s and 70’s…maybe not to the same degree but certainly in the experimental and honest execution of it by artists who desire to create…so please…visit the site and if you know of any good music that you think deserves to be heard (we’re up for all kinds of stuff as long as it’s good and comes from talented people) by people who may not have had the chance to hear it because they’re only subjected to the mainstream then please send a link to us and we will put it on the show.
http://www.eyeseesound.tv

P.S
Please don’t think i’m just here to promote my site that is not the case…i am a huge fan of this blog and of scott’s work…and it certainly one of the best resource sites around for designer’s like me who love great design and culture.
Cheers guys

A bit late on the conversation but here’s my contribution:

Pop music has indeed become alarmingly disposable. I think it might have happened around 1999 when the major labels started realizing how profitable it is not to actually sell the music but the personality. Now they plug you in to reality shows and all sorts of inane gossip about these ‘artists’ so you grow familiarized with them. Of course, gossiping isn’t anything new but the media has finally learnt how to manipulate them with real expertise. Thing is, nobody really cares about the music anymore, these disposable idols are part of our culture and not knowing about them makes you an outsider. If you want your sense of belonging intact you’ve got to play by their rules.

But to be honest, I wouldn’t trade for anything in the world being born in another time, musically-wise. I mean what are you guys upthread talking about? The 90’s were also pretty awful for the mainstream, probably even much worse than we are right now. Sure there were some genuine pop gems but your options were pretty limited then. Nowadays with the internet if anything we’ve got way more options than we could ever need. How can you accuse the mainstream of being lazy? They’re just giving our generation the pop icons they deserve. There’s some really great music being done nowadays, you just have to dig. And even then, there’s some fun songs every now and then hitting the mainstream, you just have to switch off and enjoy them in their context. Think of them as one-night stands.

PS: Who’s that gal up there?