ISO50

I’ve had quite a few discussions on the issue with people from different areas. A big problem seems to be that few people even understand what a golden ratio is or is about and still go on about it. To me the bottom line seems to be that using the golden ratio proper requires dedicated thought and very few people actually do it. Due to the underlying maths it’s harder to understand than more common 3:2, 4:3 or A-paper ratios and implementing or even spotting it in a design is likely to be non-trivial.

I tried to illustrate a few issues on this in the blog post linked to which stresses that the issue can have a subtlety which most people seem to miss (e.g. that people frequently replace a golden ratio with a rule-of-thirds type ratio even though those can be considered more different than A4 and US Letter paper which people usually consider quite different).

Of course the whole mystification of the golden ratio doesn’t help either…

The Golden Ratio and the Rule of Thirds are basic fundamental design principles that should be used or at least considered when creating any piece of design, whether it’s for print or web.

Jason Santa Maria definitely brings up some thought provoking points on why the two principles don’t apply to web design, but I have to disagree with him. Just because there are variables in web design (browser & screen size) that might “cut off” portions of a design, they don’t devalue the use of the principles. You still want to create a design with a well defined underlining structure.

The Golden Ratio and Rule of Thirds not only create eye-pleasing designs, they also give meaning and purpose to the layout and the positioning of individual elements.

As humans, when looking for a mate, we unconsciously look at a face for different healthy genetic signs and clues. The closer a face is to the golden ratio the more beautiful we perceived them as and the healthier our offspring will hopefully be. This has no culture boundaries and can be found in nature and art. It’s only natural that we, as humans, apply this to art and design.

@ Antonio and Jason

But it’s math; even though it’s old doesn’t render it wrong. Math is absolute.

@ Michael

Yup, math is absolute, but measurements on screen aren’t. I’m not saying anything is wrong, these principles just apply differently for screen based design.

What I took away from this is that you do yoga.

Seriously though, I’m somewhat flexible and tend towards the mindset Jason contemplated, even though I don’t fully agree with him. Like Scott, I’m no guru on the Golden Mean Ratio, but as we can all agree, there is that mysterious, special something that tells us an element needs to move 10 pixels down in order for it to look just right.

But this is where I think the major flaw in logic occurs with the general consensus and things go tits up. Most attribute this fascinating phenomenon to the Golden Mean Ratio. While I don’t discredit the ratios prevalence in life and design, it doesn’t necessarily now become the final summation of good aesthetics. There might be, and I’m pretty sure, more to it than that, that we have yet discovered scientifically.

For myself, I’m intensely compulsive and find that a lot of these rules and guides tend to make me wrestle with design instead of it being an organic flow. I always still use them at varying degrees, but I’ve sometimes found that case where something just looks right and there is no justifiable reason for it.

Here are my thoughts on the golden man ratio. I’ve explored quite a bit in some of my work. I even had a class in school dedicated almost entirely to the golden section.

Scott, you mentioned people see the golden section in your work. Well I also think so and my reasoning behind this is that we’ve all studied the work of pioneers like Josef Müller-Brockmann, Jan Tchichold, etc. whose work has been very much influenced by the golden mean, rule of thirds and other proportions and in our heads we all sympathise with it and thus, create our own formula that subconsciously mimics those proportions.

I’m just looking at your posters here on the right side (Ezekiel Honig, Tycho live june3, OFFF NYC, Workers) and they all somehow are divided in the same way that you will construct a golden ratio starting with a square.

There are the purist, perfectionist and there are the eye ballers. I think all rules can be broken once you’ve learn them and I think many of us have done that.

So whether you like it or not, whether you use it precisely or not, it’s in our heads. We use it all the time so live with it. Ha!

Take some time to study it though. It’s cool. There are plenty of books that study geometry and design.

I could rattle of a list of some the most iconic designers & architects that have applied the Golden Ratio with incredible results, in my humble opinion it is the same as using a grid to design with, its not an absolute but a solid foundation to aid in furthering your design.

I love the Yoga comparison. My wife got into yoga about 7 years ago because it made her feel better. Since then, she’s intensively studied it and I’ve learned along with her that everything that used to seem magical or unexplainable to me about it has a pretty logical explanation.

The golden rectangle does have some very unique properties that can be used to help a designer produce a harmonious layout. You’ve got to know what those properties are and use them correctly to get any effect. Since we are almost always dealing with rectangles, sometimes it makes sense for us to pick the golden rectangle if we want to take advantage of its unique properties.

There’s nothing mythical or magical about a designer choosing a rectangle with certain ratio to take advantage of its unique properties to make a design better or to add meaning. It’s just one of the decisions that the artist gets to make.

If you attempt to use the golden section as a magical element to fix a crappy design, it may or may not work. When it does work — I guess that’s pretty magical.

I always strive to utilize grids in photography, websites or any other visual pieces I create. To step away from the visual, I’ve been delving into the world of music theory and am constantly surprised by the mathematics behind it. The tonic, perfect 4th, perfect 5th, and how these frequency ratios relate to each other. There’s definitely something gloriously pleasing about ratios and grid systems, but I dunno if I’m sold on a golden one.

Anybody have any good articles on the golden ratio and how it applies in music?

I personally think it’s a fascinating subject *gratuitous link drop / self promotion*…
http://www.thismanslife.co.uk/phiculator/

Well, worst of senses, it’s part of our culture for 4000+ years. So, it’s like a common sense of proportion.